• Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 457

Topic: Siege Mechanics

the following is my idea of a siege, copied from a conversation with Daedeloth.

[18:52:42] whamra1987 says:
it's what i have in mind for siege
[18:53:03] whamra1987 says:
which i still haven't written down, though the conecept is complete in my mind tongue
[18:55:17] Daedeloth says:
what is it about?
[18:57:50] whamra1987 says:
i was thinking of ways to mix attacks, when i thought of a way to have 2 people send an attack and check a box "wait for help when it arrive", basically, friends send their attacks, check the box before launching, and time them to arrive with no more than 5 minutes in between. when the first army arrive, it waits, there's a margin of 5 minutes for the allied armies to arrive (given they checked that "wait" box as well", once the 5 minutes are over, they attack as one army
[18:57:57] whamra1987 says:
then the idea evolved in my mind
[18:58:08] whamra1987 says:
how about indefinete wait?
[18:58:25] whamra1987 says:
allies of sieged village can send support and break the siege
[18:58:56] whamra1987) says:
while sieging, the amount of defense towers in village kill of a certain number of sieging troops every hour
[18:59:04] whamra1987 says:
the more towers, the more killing
[18:59:35] whamra1987 says:
support arriving have a battle with sieging armies *outside* the village, not buildings get destroyed
[18:59:47] whamra1987 says:
if the owner of the village attacks from inside, he can lose buildings
[18:59:58] whamra1987 says:
a sieged village CAN see the amounts of troops around it
[19:00:14] whamra1987 says:
and based on that, decide if it's wise to break the siege
[19:00:31] whamra1987 says:
while under sige, the village loses a certain percent of production
[19:00:35] Daedeloth says:
hey, that's a nice idea

Hello! It's me whamra!! The Hamster, yeah! Hellooo!!!!!

Dolumar Administrator
Head of Moderator Panel
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 521

Re: Siege Mechanics

I actually have been considering a similar idea.  But in the end it only serves to perpetuate bigger players being big, and smaller players being small. wink


I like it TBH.  Sieges need to come back... that's when the game was really fun.

There are 10 types of people in the world.  Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Light a man a fire and keep him warm for a night, light a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 457

Re: Siege Mechanics

6 small players CAN destroy bigger players. i know bigger players can employ it too, but with honour considerations, it's terrible.
we can tweak the honour system in regarding to sieges in several useful ways.
to start, as soon a big player sieges the town, he loses the honour, not when he attempts to break in the village. another sieging army from that same clan results in the clan-wide honour being lost. moreever, if the bigger player keeps his siege for more than 60 minutes, he loses the amount of honour again, every 60 minutes PLUS costing his clan half the loss as well. basically, every 60 minutes of siege is like an attack on the target.
an attacking army leaves the village after attacking it. if more than one player from same clan send their armies to siege a target, any of the siegeing players can trigger the attack into the village, and they all go. no choices in which army/armies to go in.
it's up to the attackers to be well-organized in their regiment choices. if the target village has 11 slots, they have to send an army of 11 regiments in total. or else, once the attack goes in, only 11 randomly-chosen regiments will participate in the attack.
the attackers can withdraw their sieging army anytime they want to, it takes 2x the marching distance to go back to home village, the troops have post-sieging fatigue and stuff tongue
support troops can not enter a village under siege, they can only fight the sieging troops outside it.
to make things even more fair, the amount of troops lost in a siege by defence tower effect is proportional to the ratio of the attacking village size by target village size. and YES, this still holds if the target is bigger than attacker, the amount of losses will be less than normal. this makes defence towers a bit more useful for those who say runes in barracks are more useful (like me).
if there are any support troops inside the village when it gets sieged, they stay in there, and can not leave. if the owner of village decided to break siege, these troops help in the fight, even if they didn't come from his own clan. it's all about organizing, clan trust, and team power.

Hello! It's me whamra!! The Hamster, yeah! Hellooo!!!!!

Dolumar Administrator
Head of Moderator Panel
  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 457

Re: Siege Mechanics

i am not sure about how troops flee the field in a siege. i have 2 choices in my head:
1- in an attempt to break the siege by a an ally, if a sieging regiment flees the battle, it leaves back home.
2- the regiment just flees the battle, but stays sieging. siege can only be broken when ALL regiments flee the battle field (ie, attacker got over 0% in the battle)

a player can send support to his sieging army, but cant increase the number of troops in a regiment, he'll just have to pull it back if it's unfit for a siege anymore.

if a player has troops outside his village, and he gets sieged, his troops fight the sieging troops, and get in the village, and that's about the only troops that can enter a sieged village.

players have a special section in the battle reports page called "sieges". normally it should say "no sieges going on right now". otherwise it says the village is under siege, upon clicking that, the player can see numbers of troops and their types surrounding his village. if more than 1 clan are besieging him, he sees them seperately, each clan what troops have sent on him.
if the player is a sieger, he sees the number of troops from *his* clan are in that siege.

if more than 1 clan are in a siege, and one triggers an attack in, only troops from that clan go in.

a player who leaves a clan, or changes it, gets his siege cancelled automatically, even with the current clan limitations, clan hopping to help in sieges is unacceptable.

Hello! It's me whamra!! The Hamster, yeah! Hellooo!!!!!

Dolumar Administrator
Head of Moderator Panel
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 521

Re: Siege Mechanics

What if

1)  If the siege troops are greater than x% of the troops defending the village, the peasants retreat into the city stopping production.

2)  Introduce different types of siege equipment that
--a)  Mitigate the loss of siege troops due to defensive towers
--b)  Kill troops of the defending village per hour.
--c)  Act as mobile towers of their own.

3)  Since feeding these far away troops is now harder, a 'trade' fee is applied to the consumed fee in gold.

4)  Siege troops have Y% chance of capturing any trades in or out of the city where Y is a function of (Defense Troops)/(Siege Troops).

There are 10 types of people in the world.  Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Light a man a fire and keep him warm for a night, light a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 457

Re: Siege Mechanics

i was actually thinking of that, but never got around writing it down.

1) i mentioned in original post, that a certain % of resource production is reduced due to the siege, the peasants will have to rely on what resources they have inside the village. totally removing it is a bit harsh.

2) i like them, the siege workshop can have a comeback and be actually useful this time tongue
from mobile towers, to defense-tower-reducers. for those who complain weak humans or archer uselessness, we can have the archers shoot a salvo every hour. if there are archers inside the village, they can shoot on the siegers every hour as well. of course, dark elves cant benefit of this, they need help from human allies.

3) i was thinking of something along the lines of 2X crop consumption, since food gets lost on the way to them. but gold should do too.

4) totally agree, to make sieges of any good use, make them lose a percentage of every trade made. the problem is how to split it amongst the siegers? based on troops sent?

Hello! It's me whamra!! The Hamster, yeah! Hellooo!!!!!

Dolumar Administrator
Head of Moderator Panel
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 521

Re: Siege Mechanics

whamra1987 wrote:

i was actually thinking of that, but never got around writing it down.

1) i mentioned in original post, that a certain % of resource production is reduced due to the siege, the peasants will have to rely on what resources they have inside the village. totally removing it is a bit harsh.

2) i like them, the siege workshop can have a comeback and be actually useful this time tongue
from mobile towers, to defense-tower-reducers. for those who complain weak humans or archer uselessness, we can have the archers shoot a salvo every hour. if there are archers inside the village, they can shoot on the siegers every hour as well. of course, dark elves cant benefit of this, they need help from human allies.

3) i was thinking of something along the lines of 2X crop consumption, since food gets lost on the way to them. but gold should do too.

4) totally agree, to make sieges of any good use, make them lose a percentage of every trade made. the problem is how to split it amongst the siegers? based on troops sent?

1)  What if it is a function of (defenders in village)/(siegers)  The original was that some percent of troops outside would be needed to pull this off, but a raw % can be used as well.  I mean, a village that has 10x the troops it would have some issues getting people to that farm big_smile

2)  What if a ballista could be put in?  It could be less effective on a per rune basis than archers, so humans still have the dominance on ranged but elves could invest something for siege at an expense of something else.

4)  Yeah, I was thinking split amount them by %.  Or possibly the person who initiated the attack could set the distribution?  They have the option to set themselves as the only person to get booty, but no one would really want to help that much.  Or they could give it all away and people would flood in to help.

5)  Wizards need something in here too wink

There are 10 types of people in the world.  Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Light a man a fire and keep him warm for a night, light a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 457

Re: Siege Mechanics

bumped and cleaned

Hello! It's me whamra!! The Hamster, yeah! Hellooo!!!!!

Dolumar Administrator
Head of Moderator Panel
  • Registered: 2009-11-18
  • Posts: 127

Re: Siege Mechanics

I think it could work if only the above is allowed for the smaller ones to use that against much bigger values. Otherwise it may be over used against smaller values. That is like queing battles if not set up right. Also I don't think bigger ones will be afraid of using this to mass attack smaller players giving them no time to rebuild. The honor does not go below 0 and if they get runes they won't care as they will have resources already stocked majorly at home or simply get more from someone else. Honor value hasn't stopped people before from deciding to gang up on people. This needs to be tested for quite some time and made carefully. If not I can see a mess of complicated bugs and confusion.

  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 457

Re: Siege Mechanics

well see... while their troops are sieging the small guy, they are losing honour.
another guy from his clan attempting a siege, and the whole clan honour goes down.

Hello! It's me whamra!! The Hamster, yeah! Hellooo!!!!!

Dolumar Administrator
Head of Moderator Panel
  • Registered: 2009-11-18
  • Posts: 127

Re: Siege Mechanics

But if they are all bigger with everyone else small no one is all that willing to go after them anyhow. The honor would have to take a very massive hit.