• Demonic
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Topic: The future of this server

Any idea's about what would be needed to have some more players to play actively and have fun?

As it is now i see 2 clans in the rankings that are by far the biggest.


-1    The Honor Guard            261310
-2    Hands of Fate                    164470
-3    Impirian                            123690
-4    The Supreme Rulers     63450

The honour guard grew a lot since the last 3 months, they took in a few smaller players to make sure they could grow and went into alliance with HOF to make sure they could grow as well.
As things are now HOF is big enough to stand on its own feet, imperian died, TSR is dead as well... (2 or 3 players not in vmode)

Below this are new clans, older clans with lower ranked players and such.

I would like to call for a NAP for the entirel server, every player to reorganise things, create new clans for those who want to play the game, create equal sized clans so we all can grow, attack and be attacked again.

Ofcourse this would mean you might have to attack some friend, who did help you out in the past.
Or you would get attacked by a friend, someone who send you support a week ago and is attacking you now..
Honestly, i don't see the problem with that.. .it would bring back the fun and would create life in the game.

As it is now we're looking at the same situation we had twice before.
Reminder
-Alliance Awesome part 1 -impirian / NBO-

-Alliance Awesome part 2 -impirian / THG-

-Alliance Awesome part 3 -THG / HOF-

Please, keep this topic free from flaming or accusations, think about what you would like and consider a nice solution for all players. big_smile

Last edited by Demonic (2010-03-28 22:43:11)

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  • Registered: 2009-11-22
  • Posts: 89

Re: The future of this server

There was talk in the past of splitting the clan in to 2 or 3 then recruite new players as and when ....then there was the ultimate RESET your village once targets dry up.

  • From: limburg, belgium
  • Registered: 2010-01-13
  • Posts: 210

Re: The future of this server

and who is going to reorganise the new clans? if you let the players choose, there are 2 possibilities: they will either try to join the strongest players on the server, or they will join their friends... i think there won't be many change, and if you don't want it to end up like that you need to point out some people who reorganise everything... but i don't think anybody has time for that (or even wants to do that)...

Beast is gone now on all servers but stable, will stable last?
  • Demonic
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Re: The future of this server

Thnx for the reply FEE.

I think it's easy... but i'm an optimist wink
If the players who are interested in this decide that we need 6 clans we will assign 6 clanleaders, they can form the clans with a limit of the total amount of players divided by 6 and keeping an eye on the vallue of those players as well.
Ofcourse we all want to play with our friends, but that would mean some of us can't play... since they can't attack their friends and other clans are napped or allied to their other friends.
We need a change of attitude, kill your enemies, kill your friends enemies, kill your friends! big_smile
Me and wolfie have attacked eachother... she hates my guts but is still my friend...
Why can't others play like this?
(i know you allready hate me, but i mean attack and play with all the players in the game)

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  • Ishtar
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Re: The future of this server

Interesting concept...

Some player: "I am NOT gonna be taken down by some lamea$$ young girl who is p*ssed off that I did not approve her facebook friendship"
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 404

Re: The future of this server

I agree, it is interesting.  What we have on this server is called a stable equilibrium.  It's game theory parlance for, "No one has an incentive to change strategies."  To change strategies (if no one else does) brings elevated risk of loss for all possibilities, which means that the current equilibrium is perfectly stable.  To change this to a different stable equilibrium, you have two options: 1) change the probability of different outcomes, or 2) change the cost of said outcomes.  How do you change those two without directly changing the game mechanics?  Other than player behavior, I have no idea. 

I do not think that breaking up into 6 clans would quite do the trick.  I think that the number of clans will need to be determined by the combined net worth of the players who buy into such a plan.  The server begins to die when more than 50% of the net power (net worth) is in the hands of a single faction.  Here's the thing, we often refer to the 80-20 rule.  80% of revenue (or sales or taxes or whatever) usually come from 20% of the population.  When 80% of a server's net worth is in the hands of a single faction, the server is completely dead with almost no hope of resurrection.  If you break up the clans, and get a promise from the clan leaders that there are no more alliances except that they will refrain for some time attacking clans who are less than some total % value of the clans in question, then you have handled one part of the problem.  I think that you will need a much larger number of clans than 6.  I will do some math later this week and let you know what I think.

Another serious problem in this is that with the ability to roll out multiple outposts, it becomes easier to find yourself constantly targeting players who are either new, less active, or just struggling.  With the runes that are spent towards a castle upgrade being included in the honor loss calculation, an outpost with the same rune count as a main (with upgrades) will always have significantly more troops.  So, put another way, if an outpost and a main both have 5 slots and no free runes, the outpost will always win.  However, if a main only has the same number of slots as a new outpost, that player is still very much in what we can term a "critical growth mode."  So, we need to include number of villages into your splitting scheme.

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...
  • Registered: 2009-12-31
  • Posts: 88

Re: The future of this server

demonic you ask 1 thing and do the contrary

if you ask something you have to give the example

after you asked a nap for the whole server you keep still attacking
so than i ask my self why you ask for it

if ppl get killed when they get a net-worth from 4000 ore higher most of 90% will stop playing

if you rely wane that ppl have the same chance OK than we will all ask dead for a reset
and ma by you think than twice before you kill everybody and nobody wane play anymore
the server is too young for a killing like this ,
example there is one player who start playing the game he said to his friend tad also wane play : ooh man its no use too play because when you got a higher networth than 4000 you be killed ,the friend don't gonna try to play but will choose immediately an other game

look how-many ppl stay in Vmode or are longer than 20 offline i think that say enough about how they play on speed

i think also like hellikin there must be a limit on outpost's

hidalgo

Last edited by Hidalgo (2010-03-30 06:50:13)

  • Demonic
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Re: The future of this server

Hellikin wrote:

I agree, it is interesting.  What we have on this server is called a stable equilibrium.  It's game theory parlance for, "No one has an incentive to change strategies."  To change strategies (if no one else does) brings elevated risk of loss for all possibilities, which means that the current equilibrium is perfectly stable.  To change this to a different stable equilibrium, you have two options: 1) change the probability of different outcomes, or 2) change the cost of said outcomes.  How do you change those two without directly changing the game mechanics?  Other than player behavior, I have no idea. 

I do not think that breaking up into 6 clans would quite do the trick.  I think that the number of clans will need to be determined by the combined net worth of the players who buy into such a plan.  The server begins to die when more than 50% of the net power (net worth) is in the hands of a single faction.  Here's the thing, we often refer to the 80-20 rule.  80% of revenue (or sales or taxes or whatever) usually come from 20% of the population.  When 80% of a server's net worth is in the hands of a single faction, the server is completely dead with almost no hope of resurrection.  If you break up the clans, and get a promise from the clan leaders that there are no more alliances except that they will refrain for some time attacking clans who are less than some total % value of the clans in question, then you have handled one part of the problem.  I think that you will need a much larger number of clans than 6.  I will do some math later this week and let you know what I think.

Another serious problem in this is that with the ability to roll out multiple outposts, it becomes easier to find yourself constantly targeting players who are either new, less active, or just struggling.  With the runes that are spent towards a castle upgrade being included in the honor loss calculation, an outpost with the same rune count as a main (with upgrades) will always have significantly more troops.  So, put another way, if an outpost and a main both have 5 slots and no free runes, the outpost will always win.  However, if a main only has the same number of slots as a new outpost, that player is still very much in what we can term a "critical growth mode."  So, we need to include number of villages into your splitting scheme.

Thnx for thinking with me Heli,

I appreciate the math work your willing to do.
Ofcourse it may even need some more calculations, perhaps even 10 clans.....
But the idea's weakest part is the human factor, if people don't wish to attack "friends" in this game it will die anyways.


Number of villages needs to be included ofcourse.

On the other hand, players with 2 or 3 outposts have a huge disadvantage, they may have more hitting power with the outposts but they also have to defend their mains wich is open for attacks from the largest players...
Sometimes those main villages are very weak due to all the points being in the castle.

@hidalgo: i'm sorry, i never offered you a nap, i ventilated an idea here, that gives you no rights at all. When this idea is put into effect i will ofcourse not attack for a while if that is needed for the idea to work.
Now please stop the complaining and the whining and contribute some usefull ideas.

Last edited by Demonic (2010-03-30 08:42:58)

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  • Registered: 2009-12-31
  • Posts: 88

Re: The future of this server

demonic don't care about me care about other ppl that wane play the game i don't need a nap my mind is can think clear enough for let ppl grow and not kill them
i don't complane and i don't  whining i only see what happens whit the server and its very sad to see it that ppl don't wane play anymore

hidalgo the proud TSR

  • Registered: 2010-02-12
  • Posts: 10

Re: The future of this server

hi,

the 6 clans can they decide what there name can be ???? or not ????


because I think that it is never voluntarily accept the clan name to TSR,even when this is a reals clan whit active players in it when they have a chance to play,they profe it on stabel .

  this game because of the dictators that have a problem whit one player of that clan.

yes you can say leave your clan take a new name, but what really has changed?? nothing because the same players are there , just a new name..........

I do not like a few players will decide who needs what to do, where is the free will in this game??

and the game will always be determined by those few players and nothing has ever really changed.

in this server there is no game balance anymore and when people don't chance there additude there never will be

eldryne

  • Demonic
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Re: The future of this server

Eldryne,  6 is just a number here... no real meaning, can be 8, could be 5...
It's just my estimate that we could form 6 new clans from HOF, THG and the remains of imp.

For instance, if me, warrior and jlaholton would form a new clan we would have a total value of around 90K with 7 villages.
Another clan could be formed from members of several other clans, if players from around 5K value would form a clan they would need a lot more players and would have a lot more and smaller villages.
In order to create a balance we should appoint a few clan leaders that will form the new clans.

Apart from that, if we would create balanced clans that would mean you could be in clan a and a former clanmate of you could be in clan b, would you be willing to attack him, or to send support to a clanmate that was beging attacked by him?
I mean... that's what it's all about.. play the game again... regardless of personal friends it's a wargame with one goal, spend as much runes as fast as you can.

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  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 457

Re: The future of this server

63260+110570+171060+255270=600160 total net worth of top 4 clans.
a split into 6 clans of about 100K seems reasonable.
since TSR is already *below* that average, i would like to request it stays intact. we also have ishtar, who still hasnt joined the clan, and adds few thousand points,plus 2 fast growing players, which can get us to the 100K average in a while.
as for the top 3 clans, they can remain intact, and do some poll and see which players would like to leave and form their own clans with other leavers from the other clans, or do a total reshuffle, it's up to you. but TSR is already below that average, i dont see any reason to break it.

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  • Registered: 2010-02-12
  • Posts: 10

Re: The future of this server

Demonic wrote:

Apart from that, if we would create balanced clans that would mean you could be in clan a and a former clanmate of you could be in clan b, would you be willing to attack him, or to send support to a clanmate that was beging attacked by him?

yes demonic i already do that smile

greets eldryne

  • Demonic
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Re: The future of this server

eldryne wrote:
Demonic wrote:

Apart from that, if we would create balanced clans that would mean you could be in clan a and a former clanmate of you could be in clan b, would you be willing to attack him, or to send support to a clanmate that was beging attacked by him?

yes demonic i already do that smile

greets eldryne

Great!!
Now go and attack hello wink

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  • Registered: 2009-12-11
  • Posts: 13

Re: The future of this server

Re: Demonic's post

As it is now we're looking at the same situation we had twice before.
Reminder
-Alliance Awesome part 1 -impirian / NBO-

-Alliance Awesome part 2 -impirian / THG-

-Alliance Awesome part 3 -THG / HOF-

MAINLY: -Alliance Awesome part 3 -THG / HOF-

Don't flatter yourself, Demonic.  As a member of Impirian, and therefore I can speak for Impirian, Impirian "died" when DrV was deleted out of the game.  I speak for myself and a lot of the clan players here...We chose, and still choose, not to play as a response to the way DrV was mistreated."

My personal feelings:
IMP as a whole was robbed of probably the best war to ever breakout in Dolly history on any server! Regardless of who did what, when, where and why tornado's were used or if someone already knew, or if telling some1 to stop was enough etc etc etc is completely irrelevant. It is clear the punishment was far to harsh as the D.Team has the ability to return damaged buildings and lost ruins if it was so unjust. We were entering a very exciting period and had the rug pulled, I spoke of Dolumar to people everywhere i went: work, friends, family but after seeing how easily mod.s can misuse their power and be backed up by the game developers makes it clear the evolution of the game is going in the wrong direction. Even if they gave back the troops the villiages etc it wouldnt fix the mess that has been caused with the clan breaking up losing progression days while our foe's have continued to grow etc. this mistake is unfixable my only hope is that some1 on the Developement Team has learn't something from the mess and that is MOD.s playing is a complete and total CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy...
  • Demonic
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Re: The future of this server

KINGUDALL wrote:

Don't flatter yourself, Demonic.  As a member of Impirian, and therefore I can speak for Impirian, Impirian "died" when DrV was deleted out of the game.  I speak for myself and a lot of the clan players here...We chose, and still choose, not to play as a response to the way DrV was mistreated."

My personal feelings: Cut out off topic things.

I'm not flattering, i'm just stating facts as they are.
Since there allready is a topic about the punishment about drv i suggest you take it there.
Please contribute to this topic by submitting idea's, not complaints about other issues.

Thnx for the help!

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  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 404

Re: The future of this server

Anyone feel like adding up the combined might of the total active player base for me?

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...
  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 457

Re: The future of this server

Hellikin wrote:

Anyone feel like adding up the combined might of the total active player base for me?

i'll leave this job for doompope tongue

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  • From: limburg, belgium
  • Registered: 2010-01-13
  • Posts: 210

Re: The future of this server

i don't think it's a good idea to just remove some players from the top 3 clans...
most of the premium users are in those clans, and they grow faster than non-premiums, wich will cause these clans to grow stronger... if you just remove some of them, this situation will occur again in a while...
if we are going to use a method like this to solve this problem, i think none of the players who are now in the top 10 can be in the same clan, and there can't be more than 2 top 20 players in one clan...
it might be a good thing to reorganise the clans, but i still think it will be a bad idea, for some reasons:
1. there are very few people on this forum who are ranked lower than 100 (in fact, there are not so many people at all on this forum...), and if they are here, they don't say much. the most active players talk the most here so the weaker players aren't heard very much. this way, if there is a new possible solution (like this one), only the strong players comment it and the weaker ones don't hear about it untill it is executed, so the strong ones will always have an advantage.
2. these strong players aren't affected very much by such a change. DrV told me for example before the reset that her main castle wasn't attacked in ages because nobody dared to. the strongest players are the ones that grow the fastest, there is no doubt in that, so if anything will happen that will make them start over, they will still grow to the position they are in now...
3. i don't think these smaller players will like to change clans, as i said earlier. read my previous post if you don't know it anymore.
4. the game has already become very unpopular since the resets and stuff, if you do more things against the will of a lot of players, a lot will drop off and the game still dies.
it's possible that some of you don't agree with me, but this is my vision and i am pretty sure this is the way it is. if you are low in the rankings, your view on the game is totally different then when you are on top of the lists.
on the other hand, i think it's getting pretty boring... there are so many players you can't attack because of the naps and alliances and such that you always have to attack the same people. they start to complain and they quit the game, and you run out of targets... something needs to be done, but i have no idea how to fix this without changing the entire game

Beast is gone now on all servers but stable, will stable last?
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 404

Re: The future of this server

I agree with just about everything there but one... I don't think that we were talking about removing anyone from a clan, rather, the voluntary removal of oneself from their current clan and into another one.  Call it a "voluntary restructuring."

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...
  • From: Lawrence, KS
  • Registered: 2009-11-17
  • Posts: 544

Re: The future of this server

Fatal_Error_shutdown wrote:

i don't think it's a good idea to just remove some players from the top 3 clans..

Yeah, best of my knowledge all the talk has been a voluntary basis

whamra1987 wrote:
Hellikin wrote:

Anyone feel like adding up the combined might of the total active player base for me?

i'll leave this job for doompope tongue

I started working on a stat tool... but the API site kept crashing my browser, then school started.... no time till summer.  smile

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  • From: limburg, belgium
  • Registered: 2010-01-13
  • Posts: 210

Re: The future of this server

Hellikin wrote:

I agree with just about everything there but one... I don't think that we were talking about removing anyone from a clan, rather, the voluntary removal of oneself from their current clan and into another one.  Call it a "voluntary restructuring."

and how many players do you think will voluntarily remove themselves from the best clan on the server?

Beast is gone now on all servers but stable, will stable last?
  • Registered: 2009-11-25
  • Posts: 404

Re: The future of this server

Well, the opening poster is one member of said clan.  So the count so far is... one.

7 x 13 = 28

Economics today is a race between economists striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof economic or financial models or programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning...
  • Demonic
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Re: The future of this server

Fatal_Error_shutdown wrote:

and how many players do you think will voluntarily remove themselves from the best clan on the server?

It takes the high ranking players to set an example, others will follow...
I know there aren't many players here but if we can get this idea to be followed up by most clan leaders we can get a solid base...

I'm open for anything that makes this server more fun for the higher and lower ranked players.
If that would mean creating new clans then let's do so...

It's obvious to me that just creating one new clan won't work....
We need others to work with us...
As it is now this plan needs support from all larger clans/players.

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  • Registered: 2009-11-16
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Re: The future of this server

seeing HG are #1 clan, by far. set the example... show us...

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